Transcript 

Welcome to the Hundredfold Business Podcast, where Christian men learn the principles, strategies, and tactics to grow their businesses top line, bottom line, and finish line. I want you to discover the secret to applying Biblical truth to business growth for the greatest kingdom impact, so in the end you hear from your Heavenly Father, well done. Welcome to the Hundredfold Business Podcast, where Christian men learn how to grow their businesses top line, bottom line, and finish line.

And I'm your host, Josh Fonger, founder of Fourth Soil Ventures, and today we have a very special guest, we have Ken Ham. Ken is the CEO and founder of Answers in Genesis, a ministry dedicated to upholding the authority of the Bible. Ken is a prolific speaker and author and the visionary behind the 75,000 square foot Creation Museum near Cincinnati and the full-sized Noah's Ark theme park in Kentucky, the Ark Encounter.

Welcome, Ken, thanks for being on the show. Hi, it's great to be with you, Josh. All right, well, Ken, as we talked beforehand, my wife and I and our kids have been huge fans of your work over the years and really honored to have you on the show to discuss the importance of scriptural authority and how having that foundation is critical to living rightly, both as men and as business owners and business leaders.

So to start, Ken, can you share with the audience a little bit about you, kind of how God has directed your path to where you are right now? You know, that question goes back millions of years. Oh, actually, I don't believe in millions of years. So, no, you know, at the Ark Encounter, and the Ark is the biggest Christian themed attraction in the world, on deck two we have an exhibit about who was Noah.

And one of the things that we suggest is that God had already prepared Noah for building this great big ship called Noah's Ark. In other words, he was already a shipbuilder and God had used his circumstances to prepare him for a ministry that he wasn't aware he was going to be doing until God called him to do it. I look back on my life and I realize God had been preparing me for years for a ministry that I, looking back on it, never knew at the time that this is what God was doing.

And really, it starts with being brought up in a Christian home in a pagan country. Not that many Christians in Australia. I come from Australia, so I hope I still have that accent.

You know, I don't want to sound like you. But we were brought up in a Christian home, and my father was a teacher, and he was transferred every few years because he was promoted. But, you know, I really learned leadership from my father, because my father was one who would never knowingly compromise God's word.

He led the family in regard to teaching God's word, taking us to church. But he was the principal of a public school, and public schools are secular schools, so they're not Christian. And yet he stood out as one who would stand for what was right.

Everything he did was done with excellence. He always told us that whatever you're doing, you're doing for the Lord, you know, and you do everything with excellence. And so he always did that.

And I saw him standing for God's word amidst a secular world, even with the opposition he got. But you know what was interesting? That even those who weren't Christians, and it was a majority of teachers, the majority of parents who had the kids at the school, they respected him because they saw what he did. He loved their children, he loved the teachers, he had compassion for them, yet he set standards that were very, very high.

And some of them didn't like those standards, but he stood there on those standards. And I know years later, sometimes people came back and thanked him for having those standards that to them seemed very, very high, but they realized how important that they were. So, you know, I was brought up in that home.

Then I became a teacher, went to university, and of course, through high school and through university, I was taught evolution as fact. Now, my father had taught us that Genesis is the foundation for the rest of the Bible, and all doctrine is founded in Genesis, which it is. And if you compromise Genesis or give up Genesis, you've given up the foundation of all doctrine, of your Christian worldview, of the gospel, of everything.

And so I had the biblical answers, you can't have millions of years of death in a fossil record before sin, because the Bible makes it clear, death came after sin. And so I understood those sorts of issues. And then I gradually was able to find some books that had some scientific answers, which really helped.

And then I became a teacher in 1975, in public school, a little country town. First science lesson, the student said, Sir, we heard you're a Christian, but how can you be a Christian when we know the Bible's not true? And I said, well, how do you know the Bible's not true? Well, because of what's in our textbooks about evolution and millions of years. And so I started giving them answers.

One of them even said, and Noah couldn't get the animals on the ark anyway. And so I started giving them answers. And really, that year was a year I gave my first ever creation apologetics talk in church, and people were just amazed and hadn't heard this before.

And it's a long story. But God used that for me to start speaking in churches. In 1977, my wife and I moved to the city of Brisbane.

And I and a friend of mine ran the first ever creation apologetics conference in Australia. And people wanted to buy the books that I had. And so my wife and I thought, well, you know what, these books need to be available for us.

This is important. They need this material. And so, you know, like Nehemiah, my father was like that, that righteous anger.

In other words, why isn't somebody doing something about this? You know, why just let things go? We need to do something about this. And so we said, let's start a bookstore. And we did in our home.

And that grew over the years. And there's a lot to it. But I came to America, speaking in churches in the 80s, was invited over by the publisher of our books, wrote my first ever book in 86, published in 87, which is still in print today, although I've upgraded it a lot.

And then eventually, we moved to Kentucky, built the Creation Museum, the Ark Encounter, which are the two leading Christian themed attractions in the world. And at the Creation Museum, we have a special exhibit as an honoring exhibit for my parents. It's called the Ham Family Legacy Exhibit to honor them, because really the Ministry of Answers in Genesis that impacts tens of millions of people directly and tens of millions of people indirectly every year is really a legacy of parents who taught their children to stand foundationally on the Word of God.

And I'll tell you what, this is an important point for this whole interview, Josh, and that is this. You know, when I first started dealing with this issue back in my school teaching days, it was sort of creation versus evolution. But I really came very quickly to recognize it really is not just about creation, evolution.

It's not just about the age of the earth. It's a battle about authority. Who is the ultimate authority, man or God? And that begins in Scripture in Genesis 3, when the devil came to Eve after God said to Adam, you can eat of all the trees, just one you're not to eat of.

And the devil came and said, did God really say you be your own God? And this battle began between God's Word and man's Word. If you understand that foundational battle, and you understand that as a Christian, the Bible is not just a book you add to your thinking. It's the foundation of your thinking, the foundation of your worldview.

And you understand everyone else has a foundation. If it's not God's Word, it's man's Word. Then that will totally affect the way in which you act as a person, you act in business, you act as a leader, or whatever it is.

And that's what the real issue is all about. It really comes down to authority, God's Word or man's Word. And our ministry is all about equipping Christians to defend the Christian faith, to think foundationally, and to be able to be equipped to know how to talk to others about the gospel and to present the gospel very, very clearly.

And by the way, our research indicates of the 1.5 million visitors who come to the Ark of the Creation Museum each year, around 110,000 become Christians as a result of coming to those places. And to us, that's what it's all about. It's not about numbers, it's about faithfulness.

Wow, that's an amazing story. I got goosebumps when I heard about the transformation of people's lives, just seeing the truth visually, experientially. That's an amazing story.

Speaking of foundations, that's why I have you here, is to find out the foundations of man, work, business, entrepreneurship, so that we can take those foundations and then apply them. So let's just start off in this culture of confusion that we're in right now. How does the Bible inform us of the reason, the purpose of man? Well, you know, I'm sure there are many people who might know.

When I was brought up as a kid, my father taught us the Westminster Shorter Catechism, and many people should be familiar with it. And it says this, man's chief end is to glorify God and to enjoy him forever. And so I remember learning that as a child.

But you know what? When you're talking about that reason, purpose for man, we first of all have to understand a foundational truth. And it begins in the very first verse of the Bible, in the beginning, God. God created the heavens and the earth.

What does it mean that God is the creator? It means he owns us. It means he sets the rule. It means he defines purpose.

He defines everything. Whatever God created, he defines. That's important to understand in this world, because that battle about God's word versus man's word, man is not the creator.

And there's a verse in scripture, Isaiah 520, that says, woe to those who call evil good, good evil, substitute light for darkness, that change light to darkness and substitute darkness for light, and so on. And what that's all about is helping us understand that when people rebel against God and reject God as creator, then what is good becomes evil and what is evil becomes good to them. And so we need to understand that what man does, he can't create.

So he has to take everything God has created and redefines it according to his own opinions, his own word. And that's what we have to be careful of. Are we standing on God's word and letting God define everything? Or are we trying to define things for ourselves? And that's a big problem.

That's a challenge for people. God is the one who created us, so therefore he defines our purpose and meaning. And the Bible says he created us in his image.

So we are image bearers of the infinite, everlasting, immortal, eternal, all-powerful, all-knowing God. And we need to understand that God made us differently to the animals. He didn't create the animals in his image.

Only man was created in his image. And so man was created to know God, to worship him, to glorify him. And God gave man dominion over the creation.

In other words, part of our responsibility is to steward his creation. He gave us that responsibility. Many people have been thinking about the climate change movement and so on.

We've got to understand it's actually an anti-God religion based on man's word, on evolutionary assumptions. It ends up putting the creation having dominion over man. And so in everything we do, and even in business, whatever, we need to make sure that we understand that man was given dominion over the creation.

Now, not to deliberately go out and destroy it or anything like that, but we are to use it for man's good and for God's glory. But we have a problem. And this is where we always need to understand this.

We no longer live in a perfect world. Because Adam sinned, and now the Bible tells us, Romans 8.22, the whole creation now groans. And so sin distorts everything.

And sin distorts that purpose. And so one of the things that we find in Scripture is that because of sin, immediately in Genesis 3.15, God promised a Savior. In other words, He said, I'm going to send someone to help restore us to live for God's glory.

And so in today's world, not only is the chief end of man to glorify God and enjoy Him, and also to exercise dominion, but then to understand now it's a fallen world. And now things are going to be difficult. And our sin nature wants to master over us.

We are not to let it master over us. Cain killed his brother Abel. But before he killed his brother Abel, God was warning him, sin's desire is for you.

It wants to master over you. Don't let it do that. And everything we do and everything we think, everything we say, we need to judge against the absolute authority of the Word of God.

And also in today's world, part of our responsibility in glorifying God is also to proclaim the gospel, because now it's a fallen world. And as Paul says, you know, there is nothing more important than that we know Christ. There is nothing more important than a leader knows Christ.

There's nothing more important than everyone in your business knows Christ. There's nothing more important, because that's their eternity. And in today's world, we need to understand the fallen world and the responsibility God has given us to go into all the world and to preach the gospel.

So going back to maybe before sin entered the world, how does the Bible define the purpose, the reason for work? So let's say before sin, why work in the first place? Interesting question. You know, people today look on work as hard, and guess what? It is. It is hard, and it's difficult, right? And we don't want to do it.

But let's go back. Before sin, God told Adam to tend the garden. In other words, he was to work.

Now it was a different sort of work than the work today. Work is stewardship, looking after the garden. That's part of that dominion of looking after the creation, and it's worship.

It's worshiping God. So we have to understand that work was a part of God's original creation, but sin has disrupted that. And then what happened when man sinned? God said, now cursed is the ground.

Now there's going to be thorns and thistles. Now work is going to be hard. You're going to have to work in the sweat of your brow to get food.

In other words, now it's going to be hard because you're working against a negative, so to speak. You're working against the curse. And so now it is going to be hard.

And we've got to recognize that because we're not above the curse, even as Christians, when we've trusted Christ for salvation, we still live in a fallen world. We have these sinful bodies that we live in, and we have a sinful heart. Paul had that struggle, that which I shouldn't do, I do, and that which I should do, I don't, and so on.

In other words, every day we've got that daily struggle because of our sin nature in this fallen world. But we have to recognize now that work is going to be hard. But regardless of that, work is stewardship, and it is worship.

And it doesn't matter what occupation you have, we can glorify God through the work that we undertake. And a reminder, you know, Colossians 3.23, this is a verse, a scripture that my father taught us, whatever you do, do your work heartily as to the Lord, rather than for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of your inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.

And you know, my mother drummed into us as kids, it's always God first, others second, yourself last. Now, I can still hear her saying that. Actually, every time I say that, I hear my mother say it.

I hear a voice in my mind saying, remember, remember Kenneth, it's God first, others second, yourself last. And ultimately, what we've got to understand is, who are we really working for? Not ourselves. We're really working for Christ.

We're not working merely for a paycheck. We're working for Christ. That's who we're working for.

And every day we need to say to ourselves, whatever work I'm doing, I'm doing this for the Lord. So I need to put myself heartily into it, to do with excellence, to make sure I do it with honesty, to make sure I do it in a way that reflects God's character, because that's who I am as a Christian. And so we've got to recognize that our sin nature doesn't want us to do that, doesn't want us to be honest, doesn't want us to reflect God's character, doesn't want us to do it with excellence, doesn't want us to work hard.

And so we're going to have to overcome that every single day. And as I said, ultimately, we are working for Christ. So let's take that definition you just had in terms of man and work and the purposes of work and what it's supposed to look like, and juxtapose it with the world.

So in our current culture, fallen man, without God's word, without that foundation, how would you compare those two different business owners, two different men running companies, how would they look different, and what confusion would someone have if they didn't have God's word? Well, then work really becomes for self, it becomes very self-centered, because that's who we are. If you go back to Genesis 3-5, part of the temptation, you know, did God really say, in other words, don't trust God's word, and then you be your own God, you decide truth for yourself, you be your own God. And our nature, if we are not a Christian and continually looking at God's word, as a non-Christian, your heart is that you're working for yourself, you're doing everything for yourself.

So then work becomes about money, it becomes about status, it becomes about power. So success is measured by profit, and ethics, well, that's whatever you want to make it to be. You know, Judges 21-25, when there was no king to tell them what to do, they all did what was right in their own eyes.

So when you abandon God's word, everything is relative, it's subjective, you can decide whatever opinions you want, you know. The end justifies the means that you use, and human opinion replaces God's authority. And so business then serves self, it's not serving God, it's not serving others, you know, they don't care about their employees, they're using them for their own advantage, for themselves.

Now, a biblical worldview gives work eternal significance. You're working for Christ, he's the owner of that business, you are not, ultimately, God is. Remember, all the silver and gold is his, the scripture says, not just 10% of it, right? All of it.

He owns the cattle on a thousand hills, this is God's creation, he owns everything. And what a difference when you understand that. So a biblical worldview gives your work eternal significance.

And what should that look like? Well, we're stewards of the business that God owns, that's what it should look like. So how do you make decisions? Well, they have to be governed by scripture. In other words, we should always build our thinking on God's word, have a biblical worldview.

And so that determines how you treat people, you treat them with dignity, because you look around and say, every person is made in God's image, so I need to treat them that way. And we're all related, by the way, we all go back to Adam and Eve, so there's only one race. And so therefore, we're all one family.

The Bible also, you know, there's a scripture that says, if you want to be a leader, you have to be servant to all. In other words, humility and servant leadership, being a servant to others. Now, you know, obviously, if God's given you a position of authority to run things, as my father was a principal of a school, he made sure that he exerted that authority in the right way, in a loving, compassionate way, in an excellent way, because he looked on it, whatever he's doing is to the Lord.

But at the same time, he was a servant to others, because he was always wanting to help them, to guide them, to direct them, and to help them in their life. And he never, ever divorced what he was doing from God's word and the gospel. So he made it very clear what he believed and would present the gospel.

And I would say this, that really any business that for a Christian who owns a business, they should look on it as Christ owns it. It's God's business. It becomes a platform then to glorify God and to point people to Christ.

And you see, this is where we need to understand something, and we'll get into some more issues in a moment. But one of the things I help people understand over and over again, there's no position that's neutral. There is no neutrality.

The Bible says the Bible says you build your house on the rock, or you build your house on the sand, all the way through Scripture. There's many, many instances, you know, there's bad fruit, good fruit, the bad tree, good tree, and so on. There's only two ways.

There's the broad way, there's the narrow way. Now we've got to remember something. We are living in the broad way, and the narrow way is within the broad way because we live in this fallen world, but it's going in the opposite direction, and it's going to be very, very hard because when you stand as a Christian, oh, you're going to get persecuted.

The Bible warns you of that. In fact, I often say to people, if you're not getting opposition and you're not being persecuted, you need to ask yourself a question, what am I doing? You know, what am I doing wrong here if I'm not getting that sort of opposition? But there is no neutrality. So if you don't say anything in regard to God, Christ, in regard to the gospel, in regard to standing for Christian morality, and you're just silent, that is not neutrality.

Then you have allowed a position because if you're not overtly for Christ, what you're doing is actually against Christ. It's sort of like, you know, when people say, I can't vote for anybody because they're all bad. My position is, yeah, and some will allow for less evil than others in what they do, and nobody is perfect.

But by not voting, you're allowing the very bad person to get a vote. I mean, really, that's what you're doing. And so there is no neutral position.

Okay, I'm going to emphasize that again for every leader, for every business. There is no neutral position. Staying silent is not being neutral, right? It's allowing others who are against God to have their say, and it's not telling people the truth.

A lot of times we think if we tell someone that they're a sinner, or if we stand for biblical marriage, and that's going to be looked on as hate speech or whatever, and I need to love these people. True love is actually telling them the truth. But you've got to do it in a particular way, and we could get to that in a moment.

Josh, what's the best way to really talk to people about some of these issues? Because a lot of times it can come across as hate speech and intolerance. But if you understand the two foundations, God's word, man's word, there's a way to talk to people that takes the emotionalism out of it. I'll just add one other statement that a good friend of mine has said many times, he said boldness is compassion. And we've got to remember that we have to be bold as Christian, but being bold is being compassionate because you're telling the truth. So remember that, no neutrality.

I love that. Yeah, truth and love. And well, let's get to a question that might really tease this out.

So if you are a Christian and you're leading the business, what is your role in the marketplace? Because you're kind of going against a lot of cultural norms that are against Christianity. So when do you take a stand? When do you keep your head down and just keep working? And what is really the role of a Christian business owner? Well, you know, for a Christian business owner, in everything we do, you know, we are to reflect Christ. Because as Christians, we have been regenerated by the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives, because we have become clothed in Christ's righteousness, which takes away our sin.

And so we are to make sure that we're reflecting Christ in everything we do, in all our decisions. Obviously, they would see us saying, no, we're not going to compromise on this. No, I realize we could do this, and nobody would know about it.

And we could make a lot of money. But no, ethically, that's wrong, because I stand on God's Word. And people need to see this.

It's like, you know, in the Old Testament, Deuteronomy 6, talking about children and fathers. And it says, you know, teach your children when they walk, when they rise up, when they lie down, when they sit down. In everything you do, you're to be reflecting that biblical worldview and teaching your children.

It's the same in business. In everything you do, you're to reflect in that biblical worldview and teaching people. And, you know, when it comes to issues of DEI and so on, it's very easy for people to succumb to the pressures of the world and succumb to the pressures of the culture and sort of back off on those things.

But, you know, what we need to understand is how to talk to people and how to explain your position. That's what you need to understand. And actually, I wrote a book recently, put out a book called Defending God's Existence, which teaches people, don't argue at the worldview level.

Learn to argue at the foundational level. And to give you just a quick example, when I go to a secular university, there's a particular university I went to where I was originally rejected from coming, even though a Christian group had me coming and the university cancelled it. And it was all because of the LGBT movement.

And they said that I believe marriage is a man and a woman. Therefore, I was intolerant. I was giving hate speech and all that.

And anyway, there's a lot of opposition in regard to what the university did to me, which was good opposition to them by politicians and others got in the media. Anyway, I got invited back for a public meeting and I stood up and they gave a big disclaimer before I spoke. It was almost like, well, this guy, we expect him to come in and hit us on the head with a Bible and tell us we're all rotten sinners going to hell and so on.

And anyway, I stood up after this disclaimer. And there's a lot of non-Christians in the audience, non-Christian professors, the whole LGBT movement was there from the university. And they were sitting there and I said, look, I'm a Christian.

Let me tell you what that means. This book called the Bible, these days you have to explain what the Bible is. And I said, this is the revealed word of God, God who made us.

If this really is a revelation from God who created us, he tells us what has happened in the past to explain the present world. And so I went on to explain, look, if God is creator, then he owns me. Now, I want you to understand that my thinking starts from God's word.

And so I want to explain to you why I believe marriage is a man and a woman, why I believe abortion is killing a human being and it's wrong, why I believe there's only two genders, male and female, and so on. And so I said, I start from God's word. Now, if you don't believe God's word, you believe man evolved, you believe man is just an animal, you have a different starting point.

I totally get it. You can have a different worldview to me and totally different to me. And that doesn't mean I hate you, not at all.

We have different worldviews because we have different starting points. And to be honest, unless we have the same starting point, we're never going to agree at the worldview level. So I'm not going to argue with the worldview level because that's not where the argument is at, right? It's at the foundational level.

And by doing that, I pointed them to God's word. I also pointed them to the gospel, explained to them, how do I understand death? Well, it gives you a great opportunity to explain the gospel, death the result of sin. That's why Jesus came, died on the cross.

At the end, I had non-Christian professors come up to me and say, thank you for doing that. That really took the emotionalism out of everything. We appreciated the way you presented that.

And I think there's a big problem today. And I see a problem in business in that when you have all these different people working and different worldviews that are having different views about LGBT and transgender and abortion, all these social issues that we have today, if you understand there's no neutrality, and you understand there's only two foundations, God's word and man's word, and you learn how to argue foundationally, not at the worldview level where it becomes emotional, you're accused of intolerance. See, today, understand what's happened.

What's happened is there are generations who've been taught in the education systems of the world that what you believe about yourself in regard to gender, in regard to marriage, in regard to all these issues, that's your identity. So when these Christians come and tell you that's wrong, their words are considered violent, therefore you are justified in using violence against them because they've defined now words as violence because of a worldview clash. So the problem is Christians shouldn't be arguing at the worldview level.

Now, you will get there eventually, but you've got to start at the foundational level. And until someone has the same foundation as you, think about this, why would they change from believing in gay marriage or no such thing as marriage or polyamory or whatever it is, why would they change to believing in one man for one woman, unless ultimately there's a change in foundation from man's word to God's word, trusting Christ for salvation, then build your thinking on God's word. God created marriage.

There's only one marriage he created, a man and a woman. And so learn to argue foundationally. It will have a big impact, a positive impact.

When people understand you're saying, oh, yeah, I understand you believe that because you have a different foundation than me. You're being consistent with your foundation, but I'm being consistent with my foundation. But hey, I do want to challenge you.

I believe you've got the wrong foundation. I believe the Bible is the right one. And you go from there to eventually presenting the gospel and challenging them.

Top line, bottom line, finish line. If you're not growing all three, we should talk. Too many business owners are struggling alone, stuck in the same cycle, going nowhere fast.

Scripture says that in an abundance of counselors, there is victory. And I want to be that resource for you. For over 15 years, I've helped hundreds of small business owners break through their limits, build a solid plan, and multiply their impact.

Go to fourthsoilventures.com, schedule your free discovery call, and let's build your business by the book. Life is too short, and eternity is way too long to build it any other way. So go deeper, go to that foundation, which is God's word or man's word.

And so for you, what has given you courage to speak out in the public arena over the years as opposed to staying silent? What has given you that courage? Well, number one, God first. And the second, my mother's just been saying that again. We are to fear God more than man.

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. The fear of God is the beginning of knowledge. One of the things that we read in Scripture is that no matter what people say, ultimately, we have to trust God's word over man's word.

We should always put God's word first. To understand that faithfulness matters so much more than popularity. A lot of times today, the pressure is to be popular.

The pressure is not to be ostracized by your peers and to not be separate from them, but to be one of the good old boys or whatever it happens to be. No, faithfulness to God, that's what matters. My responsibility is obedience to God's word, not outcomes.

And so that's something that we need to understand. Always speak graciously and wisely. 1 Peter 3.15 says to always be prepared to give an answer or defense of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear, with meekness and gentleness.

I mean, there's different words used for different translations. All means the same, of course. But to do it gently, to do it with meekness, to do it with fear, yeah, the fear of God.

And to make sure that you're never ashamed of the gospel. What did Paul say? I'm not ashamed of the gospel. Never compromise biblical truth.

It's so easy to do so. I see so much of the church these days, so many leaders who are compromising God's word because of the LGBT movement and transgender and abortion and so on. No, stand on God's word.

That's what my father always taught us. And never knowingly compromise God's word. And to do that, you also need to be equipped.

In other words, be aware of what the attacks are on God's word today, because God's word will be attacked. You know, in 2 Corinthians 11.3, the apostle Paul—and that's God's word—reminds us that the devil's going to use the same method on us as he used on Eve. And what was that method? The same method on us as he used on Eve to get us to not believe in God's word.

The method was to question God's word. Did God actually say? And one of the reasons I find that many people today—and that would be true of many, many business leaders too, I would say—is they're not game to witness to people or say much because they don't know how to answer them. And they haven't studied that.

You know what? You're going to have to do some work. You're a Christian, right? We've got to do everything as unto the Lord. Study to show yourself approved as workmen under God, rightly dividing the word of truth.

And today, there's particular attacks on God's word, particularly on Genesis 1-11. You know, how do you know there's a God? Where did God come from? Where did Cain get his wife? What about the race? Okay, what about the millions of years? What about evolution? What about dating methods? What about carbon-14? How can there be a loving God with all the death and suffering in the world? If Noah's asked you, how can the animals get on the ark? Hey, you know what? That's what the Ministry of Answers in Genesis is all about, providing you those answers. And I'll tell you this, Josh, I think this is very important.

I've been in this ministry for over 50 years, traveled around the world, spoken to millions of people. And you know what I found? Those that oppose Christianity and don't believe what I believe as a Christian, I find—okay, this is subjective, but it's from my own experience, right? I think 98% of them, they have no idea what they're talking about. They just regurgitate what they've heard at school or on TV or someone say or whatever.

You get yourself equipped. You know how to argue the right way foundationally. You get yourself equipped with answers.

And you just gently and lovingly give those answers and challenge them foundationally in the right way. You know what? You run rings around them. And that's what's important to make sure that we do that.

And remember this, God's Word is true regardless of the culture, right? Don't bow to the pressure of the culture. Remember, God's Word will stand forever. It's not the Word of men.

The Apostle Paul in Thessalonians says, it's not the Word of men, but it is the Word of God. What does it tell us in 2 Timothy 3? All Scripture is inspired by God. It's God-breathed.

It's the Word of God. God knows everything. What does Scripture tell us? The hairs of our head are numbered.

His thoughts about us are more than the grains of sand. And the grains of sand, that number is so big we can't comprehend it. Think about God.

It says that He numbers the stars and names them. In the known universe, there's one septillion stars in the known universe. He knows all their names.

He named them. He's numbered them all. There's 8 billion people.

Don't you think He knows you? The Bible says He knows your thoughts before you even say them. He knows everything about us. So start to stand back and understand who God is, how great God is.

And we know nothing compared to God. We're finite, sinful creatures. So don't compromise God's Word.

And be like Job. I would encourage you to go and read Job 42 and Job 38, 39, 40, 41, when Job, who went through a lot of horrible things, and he even said, though he slay me, yet I will trust him. But even Job was struggling, wondering why this was all happening to him.

We told behind the scenes what had happened, and God allowing the devil to do this. But when Job was going to justify himself before God, God said, Job, listen to me. And then God said, do you know this, that? What about this? Can you do that? Can you do this? Can you hold these together? Can you do that? And in Job 42, Job got to that point where he said, you know what? I have heard of you, but now I see you.

You do all things. You're the all-powerful God. I repent in dust and ashes.

You know, every one of us have to get to that point of recognizing who God is. We know nothing compared to God. Let's stand for him.

He's the one that's in charge of everything. And let's remember we're working for him. Always put God first.

So don't bow to culture, right? Stand on God's word. Well, let's get some examples of that as, you know, Ken Ham, the CEO, because you've been in leadership for decades. And I'm sure that, you know, your faith, your relationship with God has obviously affected how you've made decisions, hiring, firing.

You name it, you had to do a lot of things. So as the CEO, maybe you can share how your relationship with the Lord has, I guess, you know, the journey over the years with the relationship with the Lord. But also, maybe you've had to make a few tough calls along the way.

And what was that like as a CEO? Well, you know, yeah, I wrote all this down in a book called Miraculous, the whole journey. And it's a journey of mountaintops and valleys. And, you know, sometimes those valleys are so deep, you say, Lord, can't I just have a little hill to get out of this? And all the battles and the opposition and the decisions you have to make, you stand back and you look and you say, wow, look what God has done.

And, you know, there have been many times we've come to that, we call them Red Sea moments. You know, you come to the Red Sea, and the Egyptians are behind you, and the Red Sea is before you. And you just realize there is no way across this is, unless God does something, this is the end.

And if you stand for the Lord and don't compromise, then so often we have seen where he opens the Red Sea in a very special way. I remember when we were raising funds for the Ark, it's a complicated story, but we were using a bond offering where Christians could invest, and then we would pay interest to them, like giving us a loan. And so we made this bond offering.

But then in the secular world, someone wrote three articles against us. They were absolutely incorrect. They were false.

That happens all the time when, you know, don't believe the media, by the way, be very careful what you believe about the media out there and what they're saying. But we were at that time in the bond offering where we weren't allowed to respond. And so we couldn't correct all the misinformation.

As a result, there were financial institutions that wouldn't let people invest in the bonds. And yet we had more money promised than we needed to invest in the bonds. And then we were short $13 million.

And it would have been real easy for us to say, well, that's it, give up. And I said to everyone, listen, I look back on it. God has called us to do this.

I've seen his hand in this. Are we prepared to step out in faith? Because I've seen his hand do this. You know what we've got to do? There's responsibility and sovereignty, and they go hand in hand.

You can't just sit back and say, God, provide. We have to get out and work. We have to do something.

And so we got out and started calling people. And people responded. And actually, a particular foundation, I called them.

And they said, let us know how much you need to get this done. And after you've called everybody else, we did that. And they come back and said, yes, we'll supply that.

And a miracle occurred in that we were able to do that. And another time when in the state of Kentucky, if you build a tourist facility, there's a tourism tax incentive where they will give you a refund of the sales tax generated in your facility, not everywhere else, only in your facility. They will give you a refund on that over a certain number of years up to a certain amount, depending on the percent of the capital investment that you have and so on.

And so we were approved of that. And then the governor of Kentucky at the time wrote us a letter and said, because you stand for Jesus and because you present the gospel, I'm not going to allow you to get the tourism tax incentive, which was for 10 years. It was $1.8 million a year.

And if you stop your hiring practices, and one of the hiring practices we have, you have to sign our statement of faith. You have to be a Christian. You have to believe what we believe.

Because you're doing that, if you back off on that and you can get the tax incentive, there's no way we're going to back off. No, we would do without that money. We're not going to compromise God's word.

But we also took the state of Kentucky to court over the issue based on First Amendment issues. And the person who led that, by the way, was the current Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, before he went to Congress. And we won that on the basis of First Amendment issues.

And God gave us that tourism tax incentive and overruled the governor. We didn't back off like the governor wanted us to. No, we stood on God's word.

And so there have been many instances like that. I have had instances throughout the years where someone has said, look, if you just don't take such a strong stand on the age of the earth, I'm willing to give you this big property and it's worth a lot of money. And I said, no, you know how long it took me to make the decision? No, we're not going to do that.

I mean, it was less than a fraction of a second. In other words, no, it wasn't even a question. No, we wouldn't do that.

And another time, we've had foundations tell us, look, we'd like to support you, but we just don't agree with you taking such a strong stand on Genesis and so on. If you just back off on that, no, we're not doing that. That's not even a question.

So there have been many instances like that over the years. And we've received a lot of opposition and had a lot of issues, a lot of problems, a lot of battles. But that's how it is in this world.

And we've got to remember that. But stand for the Lord and then look where the ministry is today. Look what God has done.

I mean, there's been so many battles. That's true. But that's the fallen world we live in.

There's going to be those battles. You've got to be prepared to fight them. You know, I saw my father do that.

You've got to be prepared to stand up and fight. Remember, it's responsibility and sovereignty. You can stand back and say, Lord, will you solve this? Lord, will you do this? But there's responsibility and sovereignty and they go hand in hand.

We need to go out there and do our best, work hard at it, do all we can, knock on every door, exhaust every possibility, and trust God, and He'll do something beyond what you could ever imagine. I've seen that many times. I love that.

Responsibility and sovereignty. I remember that one. So I'm going to end this interview by asking a question I ask everybody who comes on the show as an encouragement, which is, what would you say to encourage someone who is not yet fully embraced integrating their faith into their work? Maybe they've kept it quiet, they've kept it on the sidelines.

What would you say to encourage that Christian businessman? You know, first of all, I would say that just stand back and say to yourself, why am I really here? What am I doing? What's the most important thing in the universe is to know Christ. Have a heart for everybody that's in your business. Have a heart for those that interact with your business, that see you, and just realize, you know, how many of them don't know Christ? How many of them are going to a Christless eternity? I have a responsibility.

My responsibility is to do all I can to share with them the truth of God's Word and the gospel, not just in my actions, but by sharing His Word. Remember, faith comes by hearing, and hearing comes by the Word of God. It's God's Word that's sharper than a two-edged sword.

It's God's Word that we're not returned unto Him void. And remember this, this really, to me, is a big help. And that is, you don't do the convincing.

Now, you work hard to do the convincing, but you don't do the convincing. God does the convincing. And as an analogy, I use it for this ministry, and I use it for answering your question as well.

Jesus comes to the tomb of Lazarus. Lazarus is dead. Now remember, the Scripture says those who are not in Christ, they're dead in trespasses and sin.

Non-Christians are dead. I had a brother who was a wonderful Bible teaching pastor, and he would always say, non-Christians are walking dead people. Oh, here's another walking dead person, right? Jesus comes to the tomb of Lazarus.

Lazarus is dead. So what does Jesus do? He says, move the stone away. Now, wait a minute.

Jesus is God. That stone, He could have made it disappear. He could have made it move in less than a fraction of a second.

I mean, He's God. Why do you tell them to move the stone away? That's your responsibility. Your responsibility is remove the stone.

And I look on that as our responsibility is remove those stumbling blocks people have. Answer their questions. Move that stone away.

But who raised Lazarus from the dead? Jesus. But always do so pointing them to the one who raises the dead. In other words, answer their questions.

Challenge them. Challenge them with the stumbling blocks they have, whatever they are, or if they're not a Christian, they don't even understand the Word of God. So start talking to them about that.

Move that stone away, but always point them to the resurrection and the life. Always point them to the one who raises the dead. And you know what? It's God who does the convincing.

And don't look on it as a failure if they don't respond. And you never know how God could use in their life that little witness of yours that could make all the difference in the world. Because I have heard over the years, many testimonies from people who said, you know, when I heard you, for instance, I met someone in Australia just recently.

You know, I remember you in class teaching those things about creation and challenging evolution. And the person said, and God used that many years later to convict me. And now I'm an on fire Christian.

Thank you for planting that seed. You never know what God is going to do with the seed that you plant in someone's life. And I've witnessed atheists who mock at you, scoff at you.

They say all sorts of horrible things. And I had one person who wrote to me and they said, you know, the first time you spoke to me, I got very angry. I was mad at you and said all sorts of nasty things and all that.

But you know what? I saw your stand and how boldly you stood and lovingly you stood. And people have said that in regard to my debate with Bill Nye in 2014. They said, we saw how gracious you were to Bill Nye.

And they heard the gospel. And I've had atheists tell me they become Christians as a result of hearing the gospel through the Bill Nye debate. And the atheists that tell me they were angry at me and so on, I've had them share with me that, but God used it to bring us to the Lord.

So, you know, remember, you have to be faithful. That's your job. Be faithful and be responsible.

And there's a responsibility and sovereignty. When someone comes into your business, don't just pray, Lord, save them. You have a responsibility to move the stone away and point them to the one who will save them.

I love that. Move the stone away and let the Lord save them. Well, Ken, this has been such an important message.

I'm so glad you could make it to the show today. Where can the audience go to find out more information about you and your company? Well, our main website is Answers in Genesis, answersingenesis.org. That's our main website. But people can also, you know, Google Creation Museum, Google Ark Encounter to find out about the two leading Christian themed attractions in the world.

And I have a YouTube channel, Ken Ham YouTube channel, Answers in Genesis has a YouTube channel, and they can follow me on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and X. I'm on all those. But I do put out a lot of videos responding to the situations in our world regularly, if they go to the Ken Ham YouTube channel and subscribe to that. And of course, you subscribe for free.

Okay, very good. All right. Well, stay tuned to the next episode.

I'll be sharing you how you can grow your hundredfold business, one that glorifies God as it grows. And if you need help with your business, you can always reach out to me directly at 4thsoilventures.com. Again, Ken, thanks for being on the show. And thanks all you for tuning in.

Until next time, grace be with you brothers.