Transcript 

Welcome to the Hundredfold Business Podcast, where Christian men learn the principles, strategies, and tactics to grow their businesses, top line, bottom line, and finish line. I want you to discover the secret to applying biblical truth to business growth for the greatest kingdom impact, so in the end you hear from your Heavenly Father, well done. Welcome to the Hundredfold Business Podcast, where Christian men learn how to grow their businesses, top line, bottom line, and finish line.

I'm your host, Josh Fonger, founder of 4th Soil Ventures, and today we have a special guest, we have Chris Young. Chris is a leader and innovator in faith-based organizational leadership, design, and development, serving as the president of the Good Place Institute, a Good Place Holdings company. He is also chief of staff at Good Place Holdings and co-author of the book, The Good Place Organization, A Leader's Guide to Stewarding Good Place Organizations.

Well, Chris, welcome to the show. Thank you, Josh. Thanks so much for having me.

It's an honor. Yeah, really glad to have you here today and to discuss, you know, what is a good place, what is a good place organization, and hopefully make it practical for the audience and how they can actually get this done, how they can get this work done in their business. Before we get to business stuff, why don't you share with us your backstory? You know, how did God direct your path to get where you are here today? Sure.

We'll try to make that story shorter than longer, but one, just to share, been married over 25 years to the most wonderful woman in the whole wide world, which, you know, other people might challenge that, but not for me. We have two boys, 21 and 20, one's in college, the other runs his own Christian clothing brand, so he's entrepreneurial. And, you know, for myself and even my wife, probably 20-plus years ago, God put on our heart this question, which I think is maybe one of the more important questions, and it set us off onto an adventure on so many aspects of life, and that was, you know, God, if the first sentence in the Bible is really true, that in the beginning you created, you know, therefore you're the purposer, you're the creator, you're the designer, what's your purpose for fill-in-the-blank? You know, so what's your purpose for me, and what's your purpose for our marriage? And eventually it got to, obviously, our content is, what's your purpose for work? And so I started asking those questions, and I was not alone.

Fortunately, there's a couple gentlemen that were my senior in Good Place Holdings, and in the original organization, S.D. Myers, we maybe will talk about that in a little bit, Scott Myers and Dale Bissonette, who's currently our CEO of Good Place Holdings, asking similar questions. Scott Myers did a lot of writing on this, and then we just really dove into God's Word and wanted to know, God, what's your purpose for work, for organizational life? How do you define success in your economy? And then eventually, you know, how do you build one of these? And we looked around 20 years ago, and there wasn't anything going on. There was lots of faith at work, conferences, books, components, but no one really looking to replicate a consistent or sustainable or scalable organizational model.

So we started doing that, and here we are several years later, kind of doing that. The other part of it is, I have an undergrad in business, and I went back to school. I went back to seminary because, again, I wanted to know, God, what's your purpose for bringing these things together? And so I could probably go on and on, but that's kind of it in a nutshell of kind of the journey or the backstory of kind of where we are today.

Well, that's great. What I want to do now is unpack your learning and your journey, because we're all on that journey together, and I think you've got a lot to share. So why don't you start by kind of laying a foundation for what is a good place organization, why does it even matter, and how does it work? So what is that? Well, that's a deep question, so we'll try to parse it out.

What's a good place organization? So first, good place is a euphemism for God's kingdom. All throughout the Bible, we call God the placemaker. He's constantly making good places, putting good people in it for His glory, for creation thriving, for human flourishing.

So an organization that's a good place is really one that in its DNA, if you will, in the fabric of its DNA, there are kingdom characteristics that have been derived from the Bible and God's Word. And so that's kind of the foundation of a good place organization. We like to describe it, Josh, in kind of a why, what, how rhythm.

So the why is God's Word. We're deriving it from, obviously, God's Word through the Bible, God's Word through the Word made flesh, the life of Jesus, and God's Word through creation. How did you set up the entire creation? And use a little biomimicry, if you will, how do you apply those values, principles, and definitions to organizational life? And then the next step is the what.

What are we trying to accomplish to fulfill God's why, God's purpose for business? So how do we define success from a biblical economy and not a Wall Street economy? And then lastly is the how-to. So we've assembled and designed organizational building blocks. We call them the 10 areas or our good place organization operating system.

And so these are 10 areas of the business you want to look at. Some of them are foundational, and that helps you build a good place organization where people can experience the characteristics of the kingdom and then get to experience the king himself. So it sounds like this is a pretty intentional way to grow a business.

It's not going to happen just by accident. No one's going to just stumble upon building this. Or maybe I'm wrong.

Has anyone kind of stumbled upon it and done it? Or does it have to really be intentional through knowing God and His Word? Yeah, it is pretty intentional, you know, and it's usually a person who has maybe one of a few things, but a common denominator, and it sounds probably pretty trite, but it's usually a CEO or business leader that has come to the idea that there's got to be more to it than this. Whatever this is, there's more to it. You know, I want more kingdom in my organization.

I want more alignment, more unity, more, you know, we could name all those business terms, more fulfillment, more purpose. You know, all of those are kingdom characteristics, whether people know it or not, right? But I want, there's got to be something more than just money. You know, money's never an ends.

It's always a means. So what is the ends that money is getting you? And once people can start unpacking that and really, you know, what is the desire of their heart for leading or stewarding this organization? And yes, you're right, that's pretty intentional. Yeah, and I, you know, we were talking a little before we got started here, is how do you get someone to the place in their heart where they think that? Because you and I do similar work, different but similar, but when I'm working with companies, their own personal ambition, whether that is money, that is success, that is power, that is growth, whatever it is, seems to be satisfying them enough.

You know, they don't know any better. They don't know any different, and it's satisfying them enough so they're not pursuing what they're not seeing, right? They're not seeing his kingdom, you know, eternal ROI. Have you found a way to open people's eyes where they say, wow, now that I heard this, I realized I've been doing it wrong or I've been missing out? Just curious to know, just on a side note, has that ever happened? Absolutely, and again, not to misapply the parable of the soils by any means.

We just found we need to be scattering the seed, you know? It's kind of a big awareness campaign, if you will, you know, of making people aware, whether you grew up in the church or not, whether you're a follower of Jesus or not, do you even know that something more, something more exciting, more purposeful, more meaningful, you know, all of those things, that even exists? And I can't tell you how many people that I've talked with about either over one-on-one in coffee or, you know, at a larger speaking event or whatever it might be, that, wow, I've never thought about that before, you know? And again, we can unpack that, but, you know, even what they're hearing from maybe up front at church, you know, there's a statistic out there, I think it's, you know, 70 or 80 plus people that are congregants of a church have never heard a sermon on the theology of work, you know, where we spend the majority of our waking hours, let alone the organizational leadership of all of that work, you know? So it's really about making people aware, and, you know, you got to do it through all the mediums. This is one of them. That's great.

No, I love it totally with you there, and you've got to scatter that seed, and those have ears to hear, let them hear. Because we don't change hearts, right? You know, and so that's always our prayer is, God, who are you tilling up the soil of their heart, you know? And you could go to Marketing 101, you know, there's early adopters and, you know, all that sort of thing, but it's like, God, who are you really tilling up the soil of their heart to say, yeah, there's something more? And by the way, that more is better than you could ever think of. It's more optimal than you could ever think of because the creator designed it that way, you know? And that gets exciting for us, right? Exactly, yeah.

I think that's a great dovetail on the next question, which is, what is this operating system? We've all heard of the EOS operating system, and there's plenty of other operating systems out there, but what is this way to create a good place operating system? Like, what are the components of that? Sure. So there's 10 areas of the operating system, and really, we didn't start out by calling it an operating system. It actually started out being called the 10 areas of stewarding a good place organization, but that didn't acronym real well, you know? So, you know, EOS or GPOS or, you know, something a little more catchy.

And obviously, you know, something like an EOS, it's already out there, and lots of businesses and organizations know of it. So we say, hey, you know, it's a moniker that people are familiar with. So the 10 areas are, the first is, there's four foundational areas.

You know, one is charter, which is simply the embodiment of, you know, purpose, vision, mission, values, and inspiration. So, hey, what is the vision of the organization? By the way, who's allowed to define that? So it's not just the tools, it's the application of the tools with the motivation of God's why behind the application of each of those tools. So I call it, there's a macro, why, what, and how to good place, and there's a micro to all of the areas of the good place operating system.

So charter, the next step is, we call it a key outcomes and results dashboard. So how do you know that you're, you are, what are the indicators that you're using to know that you're fulfilling that purpose? And we call it a stewardship dashboard because it doesn't stop with data. You move on to, we call it monitor, learn, and improve.

So you're managing systems, you're monitoring results, you're learning root cause, and then you're improving, and that's a stewardship cycle of understanding what you've been entrusted with and making it better, making it look more like the kingdom, making it more optimal. The next step is unique identity. These are, you know, what's your unique value proposition? What's your unique customer journey, your unique cultural values, your unique employee journey? The next step is leadership.

Obviously, that starts with character. Two types of leadership for us, you know, there's governance at the board level, and we teach policy governance and help implement policy governance, and then also management at the leadership level. And then that begs the question, if there's management at the leadership level, what are you managing? Well, we say you want to manage systems and value and develop people, not just manage people and assign tasks.

So we call that managing systems, and that starts with purpose all the way down to someone's job description, to their training matrix, and their feedback loops between the manager and the employee. And then if we're working around the wheel, if you will, then we talk about training, education, and development, which we might get to this later. We believe that that's a great commission approach to training and education and development of individual humans that work at your organization.

The next step is managing innovation. What's innovation mean at your organization? We would like to say the ideal is, where in the world does there need to be more shalom, either geographically or with your customers or with your suppliers, and how can your business or your products and services be a solution to bringing more shalom to those communities? The next is managing internal-external communication. There's managing and stewarding finances.

There's community engagement, and that makes up the stewardship planning. Sorry, I almost missed one there. You know, we do stewardship planning versus Wall Street planning.

That's kind of an affectionate term, and that makes up the 10 areas of the operating system. I hope I got them all. I didn't have my notes in front of me.

Well, I'm taking notes here. I put numbers next to them, but there's a lot there, and I'm thinking, okay, wow, so for, let's just say, a small business owner that, and actually, maybe this is the question, is does this work for entrepreneurial small startup companies, or do they need to be a certain size to be able to work through these 10 areas to, you know, improve their company? Sure, great question, and the beauty of it is this thing scales. I have a little term that there's science in the tools and there's art in the application, and so for a smaller business, you would only choose a few of those.

You know, you'd certainly want to do purpose and probably have an outcomes dashboard to understand how are we doing, and maybe some very brief processes, you know, system diagrams, and also, you know, leadership, leadership competencies, cultural values, and so that would be some foundational work. You might even, depending on where you're at as an organization, implement some stewardship planning, so you just, you have some foresight into the planning, so that's definitely, you know, some foundational elements there. If you're a larger organization or you're moving from a practice to an organization, then obviously the scaling of applying each of those areas, it just becomes, you know, a scalability issue or a scalability topic.

Well, let me ask you a question about, you know, how does it work? So, if we're going to model after the kingdom and people, they've, you know, they've read the Bible, they're saying, well, you're talking about innovation, you're talking about unique identity, they're talking about dashboards. Now, where is that in the Bible? Like, how do you guys go about drawing out those concepts? Yeah, beautiful. So, you don't think the Bible is the best business book that's ever been created? Well, I do, but I don't know about everyone else.

I'm just kidding. You know, you got to look at the Bible first, you know, or look at God's creation. So, part of it, you know, let's take managing systems, right? So, every system should have an aim or a purpose.

Well, why do we think that? Well, that's the way God created the universe. He created our bodies. Let's say our bodies.

Our bodies are an organization, they're an organism, they're a system of systems. Our bodies have a purpose. God designed each one of those systems to align collectively to that purpose and also integrate with all the other systems in our body to optimally work together to fulfill and accomplish that purpose.

Uniquely enough, that sounds like business language, doesn't it? And again, I'm not trying to be cliche or trying to over-spiritualize things, but everything that we do has a sacred component to it. You know, there's no sacred secular divide. That's a myth in God's economy.

So, we're looking into the Bible and we're deriving those values, principles, and definitions, and then applying them to everyday business life, you know. Another example might be, there's pillars of teaching in the Bible. One of them is the Great Commission, right? Many of your listeners may know what it is.

It's, you know, go into all nations, right? Make disciples. So, it's not a decider-making concept, it's a disciple-making process. So, then you start unpacking it.

Well, you know, what is a disciple? Somebody who follows Jesus. Well, how did Jesus do it? You know, and then maybe we can unpack that if you'd like, but I'll skip the in-between and get to the end result real quick, is we believe that the Bible espouses that training someone to do the best job they can do, to be a better accountant, for example, can be a discipleship maneuver, because if it's done with the right why and the right motivation, because being a better accountant, one motivation is that makes us more money, that makes us more whatever. Another is, we want to bring about more and more of those image-bearing qualities in an individual that God has put in them, because the cultural mandate starts with everybody being made in God's image.

So, what if training was more about drawing out and equipping people in their image-bearing gifts and talents, therefore making them a better and better—and I'll have some fun with this—a more optimal human? Well, Josh, who was the most optimal human? I think his name is Jesus, right? Exactly. So, doesn't that put a fun little business twist on making a disciple? You're actually making an optimal human, and the most optimal perfect human was Jesus, so it's becoming more like Jesus, not in just the soft skills, because I think maybe that's what we always think of is the the fruits of the Spirit, you know, so and that's absolutely true, you know We we want more love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, goodness, self-control. We want, you know, desire those things in our work, but our work is also sacred and Sometimes I'll ask people just do you think Jesus would have been a good accountant? Of course I think he'd have been a perfect accountant. He invented numbers You know, he invented the brain that could put together, you know, generally accepted accounting principles and you know, he'd have been perfect So why don't we use that? Concept so to speak to train people to do the best job they can do not to just go make more money but to actually develop the full potential of a human being and Educate them and develop their you know develop their whole person in the place where we spend the majority of our waking hours it's you can see I get excited about this because we get to apply this to The everyday stuff of life that Jesus created us to enjoy To again glorify him bring thriving to his creation and bring flourishing to his people so I Love it.

I totally agree. What? What are you finding in companies where Maybe that the leaders are Christians. They they're excited about doing this, but the obviously not all the staff is Not maybe on board with integrating Sacred and secular together.

They they're like, well keep this, you know, keep this to your Sunday mornings. What what is that like when you? Approaching training and education development and they're they kind of know what the owners bent is. What how does that go? Yeah, so what is you you always want to meet people where they're at right I think again, Jesus was the best example of meeting people where they're at and Using as best we can in our humanists using words that can be received Well, you know being winsome, you know So a friend of mine coined the phrase kind of stained glass language and plain glass language, you know So so try to use as much plain glass language that we can again to meet people where they're at The other part of it is I you know, I have a slide in some of our teachings like hey Would you like to work at a place like this, you know? and again, its characteristics like love and respect and integrity and joy and being equipped to do your job and Being educated as to why that job is important and being empowered to do your job and being developed as a full as a full person your whole person and You know, etc, etc So all of their I'd love to work at a place like that, you know And it's not like a bait-and-switch or anything, but you're like, yeah, those are characteristics of God's kingdom so I Happen to think that this idea of building up kingdom in the organization is the best diversity strategy on the planet Because again if Ecclesiastes is true that God's placed eternity on all of our hearts and he's placed in the in the DNA of our being we actually want this we're all searching for this and so You you use plain glass language you meet people where they're where they are.

You you you can put these Operational organizational building blocks in place, you know with or without People knowing, you know, the the deep biblical reason why they're being put in place They just to get it get to experience the benefits of them, you know I could go on and on but if you don't mind me sharing a story, which I absolutely love love your story It'd be great. Yeah, so I love the story of the Solomon's kingdom, you know the wisest richest gentleman that ever lived And when the Queen of Sheba Visited his kingdom love this story and there's there's so much organizational parallels So I kind of go between the Old Testament story and in kind of the the parable of your organization Could you say this about your organization, right? So so Solomon's wisdom was going worldwide and right and people were coming to him. Just how do you how do you how do you lead? So well, you know this kingdom of yours, you know in the Queen of Sheba got wind of this and she shows up and says Hey, you have a reputation here.

I just showed up. This is my paraphrase by the way I just showed up to see if it was true and and Solomon took her on a tour of his organization and Everyone who lived there was flourishing and they loved it Right, and he was leading with integrity and with love and with care and there was joy and it was a well-oiled machine You know, you could go on and on and on and the culture was one of flourishing and etc Etc. And the Queen of Sheba was left breathless You know, who is this God that you serve that creates these kingdoms that are flourishing and thriving and beautiful And meaningful and purposeful, you know And this is my how do I get one of those? you know, and so if we can create these kingdom and characteristic experiences whether Staff you can attribute them to the Bible or or not.

That's okay, right? But this is a wonderful opportunity to share the optimal flourishing of humans in an organizational setting By by building this kind of organization So so you would say that this this way of organizing and training and educating is actually Making disciples and some of them don't even know that it's happening But that that's part of the disciple making a great Commission in your own business It is because here's the questions. I love to ask Jess. Yeah, see what you think about this one When we would argue that probably Jesus was the best disciple maker Hopefully, hopefully we're you know, hopefully we're in agreement.

I think we would be When he pulled those 12 people those 12 men out of their station of life When did they get who he was? Took a while for some of them. It took a while, you know Somewhere along the way maybe maybe all the way at the end, right when he left and sent the Holy Spirit They're like, oh, he's not gonna overthrow Rome. He had a different kingdom in mind.

Oh, okay We're finally getting this so the second question blew my mind Several years ago when somebody posed this when did he start discipling them? They won Right away So you mean to tell me Jesus was discipling people who get it and didn't get it yet and arguably one Gentleman never got it And and so the hey CEO guess what your job is Disciple people who get it and don't get it. But I think we're allowed biblically to expand our narrow Evangelical definition of discipleship to do something that we just talked about previously that it's not just evangelism Discipleship and making deciders. It's holistic life Disciple making of teaching and training and equipping and empowering people To learn what it looks like to live in the characteristics of God's kingdom because that's what Jesus was doing Yeah, and they should see a difference right? It should be obvious And very clear now, which I think leads to measurements because you did talk about measurements and dashboards and and tracking your success matrix there, so How do you measured, you know design and culture and making sure that you're following a biblical worldview? How does that work? Yeah, so we would say that there's three main aims or three success criteria to all good place organizations So the first is people so one way we try to monitor that is we want to monitor the idea that we're and you other Organizations can use different terms.

I'll just share some terms and as long as you have the essence of this, right? You're you're good to go is giving opportunity and encouragement for people to reach their potential Both personally and professionally so we can talk about so we would call that a key outcome So what are the results that we can monitor that demonstrate hey Are you reaching your potential in your job in your career in your life? You know as much as we can have impact, you know into those things The second main aim or outcome for a good place organization is communities So are we building up good places or are we positively impacting communities with kingdom characteristics? And these communities are geographic for sure, you know, where is your office or your business or your plant? You know, where does it reside and does the community know that you're there? But there's other communities your customers are a community So the services and products you provide are they bringing about? Creation thriving and human flourishing for your customers or your suppliers or any associations that you're a part of so Are we building up good places in the communities where we live and work and then lastly we call it economic regeneration Are we being good stewards of the specifically the financial resources, but all the other resources, you know The time talent and treasure and are we generating a surplus in order for it to regenerate itself? to be able to impact more people and impact more communities and Multiply this good place idea and that that seems to sound a little biblical as well Yeah, I like that. So people communities economic regeneration What I love about these these measurements is not so much capped by the owners ambition of what they want to to make or what they want for their their family is actually Mission driven and you're not capping you're saying well how much good can we do in these different categories? Maybe there are goals you set and systems you set to get to those but your goal is like well if we're doing good Things it's a good place. We should want it to grow.

We should want to multiply we should set it up to to expand And I think that goes, you know, right with the you know, the you know, the first command in the Bible You know be fruitful multiply and that's right sleep humans, but also the the good and the work that you're doing and to Have that bigger vision a more exciting vision that happens when you're doing things God's way now what? um, do you have any stories or examples of Of companies that have taken hold of your materials They they've worked through it and maybe some stories of what? What it was like what the transformation was like and what they what they experienced. Yeah, great again. Thank you for the question Yeah several one that comes to the top of my mind right away is Had an organization come to us and say hey You know, we have a lot of documentation We we've we've done a lot of things, you know, we have a lot of efficiencies in our processes and things But we're lacking a kingdom aspect You know, we're running a nice business, but we want more kingdom, you know is is God really being glorified? Uh how we treat our employees, you know again all of the all of the um, uh natural everyday business uh, um How do I want to say that you can? um In the everyday life of our business Are we experiencing optimal flourishing for our people our customers our suppliers, etc, etc So we ended up implementing charter.

We ended up implementing key outcomes results dashboards and managing systems And just recently we had a we had an event a summit and we co-sponsored it with this client And it was beautiful because they had an opportunity to just kind of share what it was like and so unscripted uh One of the individuals that we work with on the leadership team You know unity and alignment has has accelerated between you know ownership and purpose and leadership team We've we've actually become more efficient You know How we treat each other how we interact with each other? Um, even our products and services, uh, you know, what's the motivation behind them and they already had a kingdom foundation to begin with it just kind of accelerated it uh, Scaled it And they're they're experiencing, you know, again some of the business terms efficiencies A little bit more alignment more integration with each other Um, and that's and they even said this has changed everything, you know another client They had a wonderful mission vision values statement And we went in and said hey, you know, we don't need to change it. It's it's it's it's great But let's maybe let's let's refine it or let's reinforce it. Let's vet it out a little bit So we went through a charter exercise Uh, one of the things we do we believe organizations are there to serve the good Uh of of the of people whether it be again employees customers, etc So we went through this charter exercise and one of the comments was hey When we got done with this This was really really interesting to observe or experience because we had nice corporate words before But this has really captured the heart of the vision and direction That the organization wants to go You know and so Those things are exciting, you know, because again it does bring more alignment vertically to the collective purpose of the organization It brought more integration Throughout the the systems and the people that work together for that alignment And so those are the things that people experience probably most as well as equipping people to I guess a third story real quick and you can cut this one out if you'd like Third story is we had a client that bought a brand new facility And we had been doing some work at their their corporate headquarters And they bought they bought the brand new facility and had to hire people right away Well, we already had we affectionately call it purpose to people.

What's the purpose of operations? You know, what's the system of operations? What are the job descriptions of the people that work in the system? You know, what's the training plan for those job descriptions? They were up and running So, you know quickly swiftly and it went from six weeks to to train a person down to two and a half weeks Because they had all this stuff in place for a brand new scaled Organization and again, those are exciting. Those are really really exciting because you you do get business benefit Not just kingdom benefit Maybe both of those are the same If you're defining success in god's economy Yeah, well you're you're that's that's my summation of it is if you're doing things this way there should be a top line increase a bottom line increase And a finish line increase, you know your kingdom increase is that they should all work together And they're not opposed to each other doing things god's way shouldn't necessarily Hurt you, uh, you know hurt you your team your finances actually doing things better and doing it in a good way Right you all preach. Um I like to use the word optimal Flourishing flourishing, right? Yeah.

Well, I want to I want to end on this. Uh question real quick chris, uh, so for those uh men who are listening to this who uh, they're believers and maybe they have a few few words about following god on their charter and but they haven't really Uh fully integrated. They haven't fully put it out there.

Maybe their customer suppliers employees don't even know that their believer Would be your encouragement to them that to you know, integrate their faith into their work Yeah, I mean one is is really maybe just start with the question, you know again Go back to the beginning of the bible the first sentence of the bible god if that's true um You've created well, then what happened next? He handed it over to people to steward and said here Here's all the resources you need for creation thriving for human flourishing and for god glorification So so god, what's the purpose? You know this isn't mine to own so I think that's part of it too is getting into a stewardship mindset not an ownership mindset These are resources opportunities money time talent treasure That you've been given by the creator of the universe to bring a kingdom return And so, you know, maybe just pray about it take a step of of stewardship And say god, what's the purpose of this business? What do you really want to come about because you're allowing me to steward it And I would you know and then have a courage to take the next step You know, we call it a kingdom business activation. What's that next step to activating? in the kingdom uh direction And so, you know, whether it's you know, get a hold of you get a hold of us, you know We have some ideas we have we love to journey with people meeting where they're at And and journey alongside them to building up more kingdom in their organization So maybe those are a couple places to start Yeah, that's great. I love it.

Instead of getting overwhelmed by all the different things and great resources start with prayer and then start with Realizing that you're a steward and god has given you all the resources to do the work Let's start from that place and then take the first step Beautiful. Well, chris, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom on the show today I know that anyone listening has gotten a lot out of this Where can the audience go to find out more information about you and the other resources from your company? Yeah, thanks for that opportunity. So obviously the web is the easiest place.

It's goodplaceinstitute.com We're also found on instagram and all the other socials. We have our own podcast. It's called the business is good podcast So there's several places you can go on amazon.

You mentioned our book The good place organization a leader's guide to stewarding good place organization. So you're welcome any of those avenues, but I I love to have coffee. So if you're in the area Or you want to have virtual coffee? Uh, that's a ton of fun to just understand.

Hey, where are you at? And and where does god where's god leading you? Perfect. Great. Well, make sure to take up on those resources.

I've checked a lot of them out. They're amazing. So so definitely go there and Thanks again for everybody to join us on this episode Where we're trying to grow our hundredfold business one that glorifies god as it grows And if you need more help directly with your business, you can always reach out directly to me at 4thsoilventures.com Thanks again chris for being on the show and thank you again everybody for tuning in and until next time grace be with you brothers